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ARCHIVE #1
Special Education Folder:  Creating a Perfect System
May 5, 1995 to October 15, 1995
FILE NAME:  spedcps1.txt

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Subj:  A Perfect System
Date:  95-05-10 09:23:39 EST
From:  USAisNo1

Please post all things you feel are needed to make the special education
system the best for our children.  I will send this information to congress
in July.  It's time for the parents to have a say in the system since they
are the true experts.  Thanks StephanieSubj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-05-10 17:35:18 EST
From:  NKillebrew

Mandatory training of all teachers and school administrators on learning
differences.

Interim special ed case workers once an assessment process begins.  We
shouldn't have to wade thru school politics for nine months while a child
continues to fail because he doesn't have the help he/she needs.

Emphasis on study skills from the early elementary years on.

More emphasis on real-world curriculum, ethics, and state-of-the-art trends
in technology.

Classroom settings which teach to all styles of learning, not just
auditory.Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-05-11 08:48:34 EST
From:  Mytdks

Multisensory teaching approaches should not just benefit our special ed.
kids, but all other students as well.   I couldn't agree more than what the
previous message response.

How are you going to try to implement these changes?  How are you going to
address this?  Most importantly, to whom?  Some of these issues of concerns
we have, have been around for a long time.  The only way I've known to see it
change, is thru an IEP.Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-05-11 11:30:14 EST
From:  USAisNo1

I need as many ideas as possible and will take them to the appropriate
people.  I need solutions to problems so they can see we have thought this
out and know what is needed.  The parents need to get involved with the
changes that are necessary.  I would like to see a parent task force in each
state that evaluates the schools and makes recomendations to the state
special ed director about changes needed in each school district.  Some
systems are really doing a great job in the area of special education but
there are a lot of schools that are doing just enough to comply and some that
don't comply at all.  Parents should not have to enter a war with the schools
to get an appropriate education for their child.  These schools need to be
educated on how to handle special education and I feel the parents are the
ones to do that.  Please leave your name and state or e-mail so I can put it
on the list I plan to send along with a letter.  I plan to send this to one
person in congress from each state.Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-05-11 22:37:53 EST
From:  NKillebrew

It's me again...I'm from Minnesota and would love to be on a task force to
evaluate the school system here.  I'm part of a parent advocacy group and
know of several other very interested parents.  We are all veterans of
special ed wars. Put me on any distribution lists, please.
Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-05-15 02:04:37 EST
From:  Socadream

Ditto for me, I would jump at the chance to be on a task force to evaluate
Spec ed.  I am currently appointed to our local Community Advisory Committee,
Spec Ed. (Federaly mandated).  This is what our group is supposed to do,
however the District Spec Ed Director tries to crush everything we do.
Especially if we critisize the district way of doing things.  We were
supposed to put out a newsletter, we did (it was on IEP's)--well they were
very upset and now we have to clear all future newsletters with district (30
days).  The director and one teacher rep. got together one day (without
telling us or our chairperson) and re-wrote our bylaws (needless to say, they
were not parent-friendly).  We went so far as to call the state CAC rep.  It
seems she was our director's old buddy. (an ex-principal from our school
district).  She said we should try to work it out with the district--lots of
help.  The whole committee is about ready to walk.  I think you have the
right idea--your panel needs to be TOTALLY detached from schools--no ties.
Good luck, let us know the status.Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-05-15 21:06:15 EST
From:  NKillebrew

Ditto on the total detachment from the schools...and no government  funding
of any sort.  We call our parent group the INDEPENDENT Parent Advisory Group
for this very reason.Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-05-15 22:41:29 EST
From:  Alke

We as Americans see ourself as a people who can do it all when we are united.
This is what has to happen if America is ever going to get back to the great
nation that we all want it to be.  It has been through education that we are
able to leap to the moon and beyond and it is with education that we will
conquer this problem called special education.  It is not a problem to me,
but to too many educators and politicians, special education is just a waste
of time and money.

I want special education to be the model for all to see, but we can not get
there because we have too many people trying to eliminate us and the good we
can and have done for the children of our country. I would be a fool if I did
not mention money, because money is what special education needs badly.  I
come from a state that is still back in the plantation days and thinks that
children do not have the right to have an appropriate education.  With that
mentality, it is no wonder we suffer from humiliation and many other
problems, the least is an inadquate educational system and the financing of
it.  The financing of special education is a majority concern that I have for
the whole country, because my state is not the only one that struggles to
make ends meet, and the sad thing about this whole subject, is that foreign
countries and big business get all of the breaks.  Why is it these entities
get the tax breaks and the benefits, that our own born and raised in America
children do get? Now how do you figure that out?  It is a sad day that in a
country that has so much and spends so little on THE most important asset it
has (children) it is again no wonder we are losing our teenagers through
dropouts.  They see how much we care about them and see where our hearts are.

As long as we have greed, it will be hard for this nation to come to the
realization that it is about to lose its most precious asset.  The perfect
system to me is let me teach what I know and how I know to teach it.  Don't
render me helpless with useless paperwork and requirements.  Support my
decisions and my intelligence.  Give me the tools to manage my classroom
effectively and efficiently. After that STAND BACK AND LET ME HAVE FUN AND MY
KIDS.  AFTER ALL THEY ARE STILL
KIDS AND LIKE THEM I AM TOO.

alke
Subj:  Re:A Perfect System--Florida??
Date:  95-05-15 23:10:20 EST
From:  KMBrill

This is a first!  Is it possible that there is SOMETHING we are doing right
in South Florida?!

The parent movement is evolving here--better late than never...Palm Beach
County is about to errupt.  Our parents have involved themselves at all
levels.  Our district has an "ESE Task Force" (now called an "ESE Advisory
Group").  This task force is comprised of parents and professionals.  More
often than not the meetings are contrived and we are subjected to district
rhetoric.  However, the task force does provide a forum to address issues and
concerns.  To date, the task force has not been the vehicle we hoped to help
bring about systemic change.  Nevertheless, it is an important tool for us.

Separate from the task force, we have the ESE Coalition.  The Coalition is
run by parents (as opposed to the professionals who control the task force)
and many individuals are dually involved.  The Coalition is totally
autonomous.  An important part of our membership is other organizations,
e.g., Gold Coast Down Syndrome Organization, Autism Society, etc.

We have spent a great amount of time getting the Coalition's name out in the
streets.  Parents have spoken at school board meetings.  We have written to
the editorial columns of local papers.  We have solicited support from the
media.  We have shared our stories with local non-profits.  You never know
where we will pop up!  When issues have come up in Congress, we have
consistently stormed Washington with letters and faxes.  Locally, we keep our
finger on the pulse of Tallahassee.   We will be a part of the selection
committee for our new district ESE Coordinator and now, with the task of
finding a new Superintendent, we will be certain to gain representation on
that selection committee.

What does all of this mean?  It means that parents must not be afraid to
speak their minds.  We must always remember that we--parents--are the ones
with the vested interest.   If we allow the schools to fail our children,
then we are failing our children. If the schools are not doing their jobs, it
is our job to set things right. With our school district, we agree to
disagree.  It is also important to maintain good relations with your school
board.  Cultivate relationships on that level.  Share information with your
school board.  Never assume the school board knows what you know (remember
how little YOU knew before your child was born?).

Good luck and if we can help, let me know via e-mail.Subj:  Re:A Perfect
System
Date:  95-05-21 20:51:28 EST
From:  PMS Ent

I am an involved parent with a child who has multiple learning disabilities.
The educators need to be educated.  I want to be apart of the process in
making the changes we need to.  Please contact me. [e-mail]:  Re:A
Perfect System
Date:  95-05-22 08:58:24 EST
From:  NKillebrew

Interesting..."Educate our Educators" is a slogan I would like to see our
advocacy group adopt...we're still defining who we are...but I believe that
many teachers and administrators react defensively, and rudely, because they
are not informed (yes, there are some who are informed and choose to not
accomodate).  The teachers who care and do accomodate and are informed are
our greatest asset.  Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-05-22 21:30:12 EST
From:  PMS Ent

I realize there are good teachers out there who do try to listen and try new
ways of helping a LD child as we have had the good forturne to meet them.
The problem they run into is the other teachers who don't want to understand.
These educators need to learn emphathy.  They need to learn that these
children take patience and they (the teacher) needs to learn new skills in
teaching rather than blaming the child, the parent.  It is time for the
educators to be educated in building the positive in a child rather than the
negative.  The LD child knows he isn't like his classmates.  Why can't these
educators reconize the behavior is the result of knowing you can't do what
some one else can and you don't know why?Subj:  Re: A Perfect System
Date:  95-05-22 21:46:54 EST
From:  PMS Ent

IF there is anyone out there from California I would like to hear from you.
The advocacy groups here are specilized.  I like the idea of starting a group
in my community.  I do have some ideas, and  I  am trying to put it together.
We can't eliminate the schools as they are part of our educating the
communities in order to obtain the support we need from everyone for our
children.  I received a call from my district today.  We are forever in
battle, however, I stood my ground and they agreed to my terms.  We are all
taxpayers and it is our tax dollars that pay that pay the  salaries of these
public officials.  As parents and taxpayers we need to make sure we are
getting our monies worth!  There are ways to we can create a perfect system .
If any one is interested in my ideas let me know. Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-05-23 08:58:14 EST
From:  USAisNo1

I love the slogan "Educate Our Educators" but a lot of teachers will see it a
s a slap in the face.  Thanks for all the ideas and keep them coming. Subj:
Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-05-24 07:45:48 EST
From:  NKillebrew

I think that's part of the problem...seeing themselves as omnipotent.
Humility is a virtue that's worth attaining, and sharing with our children
through exemplary behavior.  No one knows everything, especially when it
comes to special ed.  I don't see the educators who are trained in special ed
as problematic, as much as the mainstream teachers and administrators who
like to think they know it all and don't need us telling them what they don't
know.  If someone personalizes our "slogan", I would suggest they look at the
reasons why...their inward analysis can be no more of a struggle than the one
parents and children experience when the spec ed door gets slammed in their
face.Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-05-24 09:11:45 EST
From:  USAisNo1

I see a problem with special educators, the regular teachers and especially
administration.  The problem with special educators I see is they have all
ready decided what problems children will have before they ever evaluate them
and they have a hard time educating the children who deviate from the mean of
a particular disability.  The regular teachers problem is usually purly a
lack of knowledge.  The administration wants to provide as little as they can
to stay in compliance and I see them manipulating the children's placements
to make a profit.  The perfect system would consist of a team of parents and
non-school professional to act as a watch dog over the programs in the
schools.    Subj:  The perfect system
Date:  95-05-24 20:07:32 EST
From:  MBern24

I work in an inner-city school district in New Jersey.  Because the school
can't afford out of district placements (or so they say) we have many
children in special education who are being lost in the system.  They are too
uncontrollable for the school to handle.  They end up wasting everyones time.
I have students who really want to learn, but I can't teach them because the
children who are acting out have to be taken care of first.  The parents are
too uneducated to realize their rights and their children's rights, and they
are too tired to fight for them.

I agree that school districts need to have committees of parents and teachers
who will hold the districts accountable for what is going on.

Also, I think all teachers should be educated in both regular education and
special education.  I have degrees in both, and learning about special
education would only do good for those in regular education.  In the college
I graduated from, it was mandatory for a person who was majoring in special
ed. to also major in elementary ed., but those who wanted to major in
elementary ed. had no special ed. courses.  With mainstreaming and inclusion
becoming more and more popular, we really need to have the regular teachers
educated in special education.

We also need to base our curriculums around real life.  Special education
students really need to see that what they are learning applies to everyday
life.

Pennsylvania just started something called Outcome-Based Education.  They
supposedly got rid of "grades" and have all students (regular and special
ed.) working towards objectives.  This takes away a lot of the stigma of
special education and lower level classes, but it is a lot of work.  Subj:
Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-05-25 09:01:38 EST
From:  PMS Ent

There are teachers out there that don'tunderstand these children and they
close their minds to suggestions.  I keep hearing how all the other students
can do so your child must also.   I found it very difficult to function in
the class room when I was trying to assist my son.  The ADHD child is not the
only child that needs structure!  The stimulus in the OPEN class room was
more than I could handle.  There was so much confusion all around me and all
I could think of was how could these young minds concentrate when there was
so much going on?  I also found that they allow the children to get play
before school and excepted to become under control immediately for class.
This is very difficult for the child who is hyper.  The other problem I found
with some teachers was that they become too restrictive.  I firmly beleive
that if a child is not causing a disruption to the class then why not
reconize this and give him praise rather than causing the child additional
stress by insisting he conform to what the teacher decides is necessary.  The
teachers say their major complaint is with a child who disruptes the class.
What I have seen is the teacher manages to disrupt the class by making this
child the focus of attention in a negative light.

The teachers who fill they have been slapped are the ones who need to do
some self evaluation and open up to suggestions.  There are no easy answers
when dealing with a child who does not have a clear diagnois and
and everyone is searching for answers.  Today the child can't add 2+ 2 as he
did yesterday.  That is the learning disabled child.  He doesn't know why he
can't so why insist he can do it.  All children want to be accepted.
It is the teacher's responsibilies to reconize each such is NOT BAD.  There
is a reason. The child isn't duing it intentually.  Learn to not take it
personally.  Look at the positive in that child then work with others to
adjust and be flexible.Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-05-26 22:00:47 EST
From:  NKillebrew

Ditto, PMS.  I am constantly astonished by the negative reinforcement...
some of it appears retaliatory or spiteful because they have to accomodate.
Teachers must learn and practice positive problem resolution skills; they
must demonstrate the behaviors they expect from our children.  They need to
"lighten up" and make learning fun.  They must develop interpersonal skills.
They need to give up the "status quo" and set new goals for themselves.  If
that means looking inward, again and again, to review their own style of
teaching, what works and what doesn't work, so be it.  Teaching should be a
two-way street.  Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-05-26 23:52:56 EST
From:  SusanS29

There are some things I really like about the Montessori system. They treat a
new lesson like what it is -- a precious gift from one generation to the
next.

The Montessori teacher learns to present the lesson to the student in a low
voice but revealing the excitement and wonder of what it to come -- MORE
KNOWLEDGE!!!

It's marveleous to see in action.Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-05-29 13:03:52 EST
From:  LADISLIPER

I am also looking for a perfect system for my son.  I believe it is time to
develop private schools under a voucher system. The state would pay for the
school, and we could help develop  special curriculum for our special
children.  Calif. is asking for it in the polls. I hope it passes next time
because I believe that is the only way we are going to succeed.  I personally
have fought the present system for too many years and unfortunately my son
has become the loser. If I can help please contact me at
[e-mail]:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-05-30 23:27:37 EST
From:  PMS Ent

The parents are under educated about their rights because the schools do not
inform them.  I agree that parent's give up.  I did the first time around and
my daughter was lost.  This time I refuse to give up.  The problem is why
must it be a hassel?   I can see why MBern24 feels these children are wasting
everyone's time.  When you have children with learning disabilities they
become very uncontrolable and one teacher is not enough.On the other hand you
have the child who is quite who also may need assistance but is left alone.
The classes need to be smaller and there needs to be more than one teacher.
Education takes more than a few hours of each day.  Children need time and
space rather than being forced into adult time schedule.  I do not beleive
any child is a waste of any ones time.  I beleive that every child should be
treated with compassion and patience.  I question the capabilites of teachers
who seem to always claim "all the other children sit quitely, but yours
doesn"t".  That teacher wants a robot.
The states claim they can't afford special education so why would the voucher
system be any guarantee.  The state of California has a lottery which is for
the purpose of funding education but everyone claims they don't see it.  I am
familiar with the Monessori Schools, however, they do not want children who
have problems such as disrupting the class room.
I would like teachers to quit looking for a diagnois and just reconize that
when a child becomes disruptive it is because others around him can do what
he can't seem to do and it is more than he is capable of handling.  Children
need to be children.  They need to be treated with empathy, compassion, and
when the child doesn't fit the "Critria" expected, then don't lable the child
a "BAD" kid.
Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-05-31 09:33:00 EST
From:  USAisNo1

No child is a waste of time.  The only time wasted is the time we spend
sitting in meetings to hear so called experts tell us what our children need.
I am very curious about how much money is spent on meetings and how much is
spent on actual time working with the child.  We go to these meetings and
explain our children's histories things they can do things they can't do
things they are allergic to possible things to look out for and what happens
the people in the meetings usually aren't the one s who are with the children
the majority of time anyway and the ones who are with our children never hear
any of this.  What a waste of time and funds.  The parents are put in a
position of the school knows best we have degrees in htese areas and you are
just merely the parent.  The perfect system would listen to the parents and
have faith that the majority of parents are the true expert about their
children.Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-05-31 18:59:25 EST
From:  SusanS29

"The only time wasted is the time we spend sitting in meetings to hear so
called experts tell us what our children need."

Not necessarily. It depends on the experts. Sometimes the information is
useful, and sometimes it even leads to improved education. I've seen it
first- hand.

However, I absolutely agree that parents are experts in their own right about
their own children, and it doesn't take an advanced degree.

In the long run, only we parents will really take responsibility for our
children. Teachers only have them for one year.Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-05-31 20:33:49 EST
From:  NKillebrew

I couldn't tell how much money is spent on meetings...but I can say it's
small compared to the money school districts spend on litigation which is
intended to keep our children from receiving the help they need.  Minnesota
school districts spent over 1 million last year on special ed
litigation...Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-06-03 23:04:31 EST
From:  BaPenumbra

I feel compelled to post here because I am a parent of a special needs child
and a special educator. Believe me, I have had my trials as a parent with the
school system. After teaching in a regular classroom for 11 years, I went
back to college to get my masters in special ed to establish my credibility.
The last three years I have taught special ed and found it to be the most
rewarding experience of my life, but not without trials.  As a teacher I have
always tried to be the best I can be.  There are professionals who do not
understand special needs or the beautiful gifts these children have to give.
Likewise, there are parents who have no trust and do not realize that there
are those of us who really care.  My experience has been that if everyone
will reach out in love and understanding the walls will be broken down and
our children will have the education they deserve and need.  Open
communication is the key and sometimes it is a difficult mountain to climb.
I am hoping to become a motivational speaker working to bring parents and
educators together.  Please E-mail me if you have any suggestions, for I am
open to learn and grow to be all that I can be.    Saying it with love,
BarbaraSubj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-06-04 11:10:10 EST
From:  USAisNo1

" Likewise, there are parents who have no trust and do not realize that there
are those of us who really care."

Most parents who do not trust began trusting that the schools really had the
best interest of their children in mind and somewhere a long the line parents
realize that not all are really there for the children.  As a parent you get
lied to, manipulated and you watch your child suffer through the neglect of
the schools.  It is hard for a parent to know which teacher is real and which
one is not.  Eventually you find out but should the disabled child be left to
suffer until you realize this teacher really don't care or does care.  As a
parent we were given children with special needs we have had to learn about
these needs and figure out how to meet them.  It is hard to put blind trust
in schools when you have been through numerous bad situations.  It would make
it a lot easier on parents to actually believe the schools and all the
teachers really loved and cared about our childrens needs but believing it
does not make it so.  There are great teachers and usually the teacher is the
least of the problems.  The administration causes most of the problems and
the teachers have to abide by the policies the administration sets.  The
perfect system would consist of expecting the disabled child to do what the
child without disabilities does until the child shows he cannot then find an
alternative method.  The system needs to stop selling the disabled child
short.  Solutions for educating a disabled child should only come after a
problem has been found.Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-06-04 16:59:26 EST
From:  SusanS29

"As a parent you get lied to, manipulated and you watch your child suffer
through the neglect of the schools."

In fairness, this isn't all schools, all the time. We have had pretty good
experiences for the most part.Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-06-05 09:41:09 EST
From:  USAisNo1

"In fairness, this isn't all schools, all the time. We have had pretty good
experiences for the most part."


If one child is left to suffer that is one child too many!  The schools need
to be held accountable.  Many schools are uneducated about meeting the needs
of children with disabilities and assume every child who has a disability
will have the same problems with education.  Disabled children are like
children without disabilities they all have different ways of learning.Subj:
Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-06-06 16:04:23 EST
From:  USAisNo1

I wonder what would happen if we quit focusing on what disabled children
can't do and began focusing on what they can?Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-06-11 09:51:51 EST
From:  PMS Ent

I totally agree.  The purpose of EDUCATION is to educate.  It is amazing how
many educators fail to realize this.  The whole system needs to be changed
with the key word being FLEXIBILITY.  If the child prefers to sit quitely at
his desk rather than on the floor in front of the teacher why make an issue
of it?  Children need to have limits but let's be reasonable.
Subj:  What so special about specialed
Date:  95-06-13 13:36:57 EST
From:  DearEsther

Although I have been in special education for 32 years I feel that we have
not gotten our job done.  How many of our kids learn the skills they need to
be successful and productive citizens.  How many of our students have high
self-esteem and know they have talents and gifts.  My ADHD/LD son serious
problems in regular ed, but I took him out of public schools rather than put
him in a special ed. classroom where I felt he wouldn't be challenged to
reach his full potential and he would be surrounded with other students who
had similar social/behavior problems.  He went to a private school where he
was taught to appreciate himself and learn ways to control his inappropriate
behaviors.  he was taught to be responsible and respectful.  He was
acknowledged for his gifts and talents.  He has just graduated from college
and I know that would have never happened if I had placed him in special ed.
in California.  Perhaps things are different in other States, but are we
really providing this children with the attitudes and skills they need to be
successful and happy people?Subj:  Re:What so special about special
Date:  95-06-13 16:28:46 EST
From:  USAisNo1

Special Education could work for a lot of children if the administrators and
teachers would see the children as children and recognize the areas these
children are good in.  The idea that a child has a disability and therefore
we can water down the curriculum and just do enough to meet state and federal
guidelines is what is happening in a lot of schools.  What is so special
about special education?  The only thing I see special are the children but
then again does it take a disability be special?  What is happening with
education for the disabled is they are acting like our children are being
given some sort of special classes therefore we should be grateful when in
all actuallity it is like giving a baby a pacifier when he needs a bottle.
Subj:  Re:What so special about special
Date:  95-06-14 18:47:37 EST
From:  SusanS29

"Although I have been in special education for 32 years I feel that we have
not gotten our job done."

I think that very often you're right. Moreover, when we do get a good outcome
I'm not sure special education can take the credit. It's been my experience
that those kids are the ones who knew their parents were behind them all the
way, who saw their child's special needs as just one small part of the
overall picture. I think the parents should get the credit most of the time
(although not the *blame* when that isn't enough.)Subj:  Re:What so special
about special
Date:  95-06-14 18:51:18 EST
From:  SusanS29

"Special Education could work for a lot of children if the administrators and
teachers would see the children as children and recognize the areas these
children are good in."

I think the system fights us on that. Our special ed. system is dominated by
the notion of "remediation," that we can "fix" whatever is "broken."
Tremendous amounts of energy are spent on trying to make the child equally
good at everything, and precious little on either compensation for weaknesses
or for developing talents. Developing talents might be the most important
part; every one needs to believe he or she is good at something.

I was prevented from writing goals that would either head trouble off down
the road (such as starting on cursive or multiplication facts ahead of the
class's schedule) or that would maintain strengths. I found work-arounds (for
instance, couching the multiplication facts as the measurement for "improved
memory") but I had to be pretty creative.Subj:  Re:What so special about
special
Date:  95-06-16 20:06:33 EST
From:  Mytdks

No one has worded this as well as you have.   I am in litigation over this
very thing.  If John Doe can not memorize the mulitiplication table but
understands the concept, give him the calculator.  Six months pass and John
Doe is still being taught to memorize the multiplication table.  No wonder
these children never seem to progress to mastery level.  Subj:  Re:What so
special about special
Date:  95-06-16 22:44:51 EST
From:  PMS Ent

I thinfk Mytdks said it very well.  My son has difficulting using a penceil
or a pen but when he uses a keyboard (computor) he does very well.  They
(the teachers) won't allow him to utilize this as they insist he must learn
to write.  I too want him to write, however, he becomes very frustrated and
then refuses.  If he can write using a typewriter/computor, is he not
writing?Subj:  Re:What so special about special
Date:  95-06-17 01:13:18 EST
From:  SusanS29

"No one has worded this as well as you have."

Might be because I wrote a book on the subject (grin).  Kind of got my
thoughts focused... (Grin)Subj:  Re:What so special about special
Date:  95-06-17 01:15:12 EST
From:  SusanS29

"They  (the teachers) won't allow him to utilize this as they insist he must
learn to write."

PMS, that's a violation of his civil rights. It will help him greatly to
learn to write. We all need grocery lists, and we have to fill out job
applications.

However, when he needs to *think* and write at the same time -- which is more
important? The thinking, of course. If he can think better using a keyboard
it's the *only* appropriate way to do it.

If you went to the Office of Civil Rights on this one you'd probably win, and
the school would probably have to buy him a laptop.Subj:  Re:What so special
about special
Date:  95-06-17 13:58:44 EST
From:  PMS Ent

Susan, I am waiting to hear from my advocate in D.C. regarding what to do
about the violations of my son's rights prior to his current placement.  His
current placement is working out better than the last but we are still having
difficulting with the "tools" he needs.  There are so many problems we are
still dealing with that we are just maintaining, if you know what I mean.
Our son is l,500 miles away, and though we just managed to get the school
district to agree to our visiting him every two months we now have the
problems  him feeling defeated as we are not there enought to give him the
hugs and nuturing he needs while he is struggling with all of his challenges.
You know,  many people fail to see the whole picture when dealing with a
child who has diabilities.  Everything is an important component of the
learning process.  I guess I should side step a little and go to the Civil
Rights area as I am not getting very far with the due process of education.
I am open to all any any suggestions as our battle is far from being over.
Subj:  Re:What so special about special
Date:  95-06-17 14:01:33 EST
From:  PMS Ent

I am interested in your book!  What is the name of it?Subj:  Re:What so
special about special
Date:  95-06-18 12:58:23 EST
From:  SusanS29

The name of it is TAMING THE DRAGONS: REAL HELP FOR REAL SCHOOL PROBLEMS
(ISBN # 068243-04-2) -- not yet available nationwide.Subj:  Re:What so
special about special
Date:  95-06-18 12:59:13 EST
From:  SusanS29

I wish I could help more, PMS, but I don't know much about this sort of
problem. You may be forging new territory for the school district. I hope
you'll let us know what kind of results you get from the advocate.Subj:  What
happens after Graduation
Date:  95-07-04 10:45:45 EST
From:  USAisNo1

If we keep the children with disabilities out of the mainstream in school
what happens to them after they graduate?  Do they go from the locked doors
of the special ed room to the locked doors of a group home or some other
institution?  What hppens to the children who see these disabled children
being kept out of the mainstream?  Do they begin to believe our children
don't belong in their world?  Some of the messages that are being silently
sent in the schools are the ones causing a lot of the problems in society
today.  Subj:  Re:What happens after Graduation
Date:  95-07-04 11:15:11 EST
From:  SusanS29

"What hppens to the children who see these disabled children being kept out
of the mainstream?  Do they begin to believe our children don't belong in
their world?"

Of course they do. Someone actually said that to me once: "I know retarded
people can function in the world. I just don't want to have to look at them
on the street."

In the seventies I lived in a neighborhood where an apartment building was
converted to accommodate those with physical challenges. The city put in
cement ramps at the curbs, people moved into the apartments and we started
seeing people *right there on the public streets* (grin) with physical
limitations! It was quite a surprise at first, but now they're quite
ordinary-appearing in that neighborhood. The neighborhood has a lot of
outdoor cafes which makes them even more visible (not shoved back out of
sight by the kitchen where few go).

Then they built a halfway house for the mentally ill. People stared at them
at first also.

It's amazing what us normals can learn to tolerate, given a chance.

Please note the satire, folks...Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-07-17 22:03:03 EST
From:  SPeter9366

When my child was placed in LD, I was delighted, I thought he would be taught
stratagiesthat would help him compensate for his weak areas.  I also trusted.
When a fourth grader comes home and say's " I am going to kill myself, I
can't read.".. the first week of foureth grade...the parent better
investigate.  His teacher assured me his reading had progressed over the two
years of LD help.  In fact he was at the top level of her students.  When I
requested a evaluation of his reading, the results( on several tests) showed
the marvelous progress amounted to .9 gain in (average) reading level from
1st grade to 4th grade. Because he was reading on K.1-1.2 level at the end of
1st grade and now was reading on a K 11-1.2 levels he had made progress.  We
have learned the hard way not to trust.  There are exceptional Special
Education teachers, they do their job, they love our children and most
imp[ortant our children learn and make progress and can catch up with their
peers.  (it's a long story but we now have seen gains of 2-3 years after 6
months of tutoring).  In an ideal system our teachers would receive the same
respect and financial reward as a Dr.  They would serve an internship, they
would practice, for a year or two, under master teachers.  The teachers would
also be accountable for aa childs education and progress.  They would be
responsible..they would call in an expert, if they could not solve the
problem.  etc.  No longer would parents be told...your son(daughter) is not
capable of higher level work.  Your child may never learn to read, you might
consider counciling(because you have asked for reasons or accountability)
The prior comments have been made to me, my son is 11, average IQ, who fell
furether and further behind.  He is trying to catch up with his peers and
someday will.  What price has he paid??

I have been in sales and marketing of educational materials for 17 years. I
am accountable for my sales and territory.  I can not say"I forgot, I did not
know, or I did not want to worry you,.  your books are backordered and won't
be here until March 2.  Unfortunatly I have heard these and many other
excuses.  My third child enters school in September, after two older children
with LD, I just now, feel, I have the knowledge to go through the process
again. My experiences have been with 4 LD teachers, new ones without the
experience or training to assess and
remeidate reading problesm. the above teacher and one exceptional teacher.
Thanks S.Peter 9366Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-07-18 10:23:37 EST
From:  Ratatat

Without parents, kids are really alone.  You have done a good job intervening
for your child.

Can I suggest a wonderful resource for you and your child's tutor (and maybe
even the Special Ed teachers) to help continue the excellent progress and
support  your child needs?

It is a book written by a Special Ed. expert who really knows her stuff and
has compassion.  This book is very understandable for parents and is full of
all sorts of very concrete and specific things you can do with your child to
help them with the very specific ways they need to learn.

Taming the Dragons:  Real Help for Real School Problems, by Susan Setley.
You can order it from Bradburn at 1-800-782-2490.

I have found it to be full of useful, wise and practical *real* things I can
do to help my daughter.  It might be some of the best $$ you ever spend on
your child's education!!!  I mean it.

Good luck...your child is indeed fortunate to have a *with-it* parent.
:)Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-07-26 00:46:20 EST
From:  In4Thefun

That is great to hear ,about your childs progress! Wish I could say the same
for my 10 year old. If you dont mind me asking,who pays for the tutor that
has helped so much?Subj:  False expectations
Date:  95-08-22 12:40:55 EST
From:  USAisNo1

As a parent of a child with a disability we are not entitled to make
mistakes.  We are expected to have the right answers all the time.  The
perfect system would be one that does not place the expectation of perfection
on the parents of children with disabilities.  The role of parenting is the
same as with a child without disabilities.  We should be held to the same
standard whuch is that we will not always make the right decision all the
time but have the ability to determine when a decision is wrong.Subj:  Re:A
Perfect System
Date:  95-08-22 20:26:59 EST
From:  Junebug34

IN SEARCH OF A BETTER SYSTEM.  I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR RESEARCHING A PROGRAM FOR
SLOW LEARNERS.  THESE ARE STUDENTS WHO DO NOT QUALIFY FOR SPECIAL EDUCATION.
THEY DO NOT HAVE LEARNING DISABILITIES, THEY ARE JUST SLOW LEARNERS WITH
LOWER THAN AVERAGE IQS.  I WOULD LIKE TO SET UP A QUALIFYING SYSTEM  AND GET
MORE DATA ON OTHER SCHOOL PROGRAMS.  CAN YOU HELP ME?  EMAIL ANY HELP.Subj:
Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-08-31 21:31:47 EST
From:  SusanS29

I hope you find the information you need, but please do not post in all-caps.
It's hard to read and how we "shout" on-line.

Thanks!

SusanS29-HostSubj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-09-14 13:16:56 EST
From:  MAOJOP

My sister is a teacher for the third grade and she has a son who is Downs and
is ADHD . She and the whole family have been fighting the school system since
before he was eligable to actually go to public school.  She is an excellant
teacher infact at her school parents request her and she spends most of her
time trying to get other children identified and get them help.

We have had to Sue the School Board for the last three years to get my nephew
what he needs and they still havent gotten the picture.  She is very willing
to do what ever we can do to get educators educated on our kids.
 Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-09-15 20:43:36 EST
From:  Loguek

I don't know how to get the educators to "get it".  We have been in a bitter
due process hearing about our hearing impaired son, placed him in an out of
state private program for the last year, starting him on the second year this
year, and his progress has been remarkable.  Much of it, if not all, can be
attributed to the fact he is finally receiving an appropriate education.  I
don't know why our district cannot see through its own power trip and do what
is appropriate for the children.  The idea of education plans being
individualized is a huge joke in my opinion.  What is not so humorous is it
takes alot of money, time and peserverance to ever get a ruling in the
parents' favor.  It is so frustrating...we are finally at a place where our
son's needs are truly met for the first time, but we eventually will be back
in the district once his education here is finished.  And the disheartening
fact is we will have to deal with them again when we go back to the district.
No wonder my hair is turning white!!!Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-09-16 09:53:28 EST
From:  SusanS29

"I don't know why our district cannot see through its own power trip and do
what is appropriate for the children. "

Because if you win -- and you will have some compelling evidence because of
his new gains -- they will be obligated to pay for his out-of-state tuition,
boarding, etc. If they wanted to avoid that, the burden was on them to design
a program that would get close to the same results. Apparently they didn't.

Make sure you ask for legal costs as well.Subj:  A Perfect System
Date:  95-09-19 20:50:00 EST
From:  Loguek

I've tried to respond to your post to me but am having a terrible time
getting anything across on e-mail.  Will post to you personally when the
system can handle it.  Bottom line: what advice can you give to parents who
are in due process, it will be perhaps several years before the case is
decided and goes through several stages of appeal, and how do you come to
terms with the injustices the district has done to your child?  We know they
are injustices and not seeing the child as he is because he is absolutely
flourishing where he is now, and was considered an utter failure in the
public placement.  We are grateful we got him out when we did, but how many
other children are not living up to their potential because of the
"pig-headeness" of administrators who truly will NEVER see the potential of
any of these children?Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-09-19 23:17:46 EST
From:  SusanS29

" Bottom line: what advice can you give to parents who are in due process, it
will be perhaps several years before the case is decided and goes through
several stages of appeal..."

Have you tried the Office of Civil Rights?Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-09-20 17:59:24 EST
From:  Loguek

No, I think that's about the only thing we haven't tried.  What would be the
basis of my complaint?  What would be allegations as far as his civil rights
would be?  That he was forced to communicate in a way that was not his chosen
mode of communication?  Would that then be getting into a methodology
issue?Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-09-20 21:49:05 EST
From:  SusanS29

The Office of Civil Rights takes complaints from any individual with a
disability who has been discriminated against, and proving unsuitable
services qualifies. It doesn't cost much money (you'll probably need to make
some photocopies of your records, etc.), and -- *no lawyers allowed* -- you
can't bring one but neither can the school -- which means they can't
"out-gun" you.

I believe you can take an advocate or friend with you.

It's a whole lot faster than the legal system also. What your approach would
be I don't know because I don't know your child and his educational history,
but anything significant you see as challengeable in an IEP (for instance)
might be cause. For instance, if the school district unilaterally changes
placement...Subj:  Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-10-15 21:43:57 EST
From:  Loguek

Susan, it's loguek again,  followed your advice and got information from OCR.
But the issues we are dealing with are not so much discrimination issues
because he is hearing impaired...the issues are to put it bluntly, are
illegal tactics such as releasing videotapes to district's experts during due
process which were taped without our knowledge or authorization, and were not
provided to our counsel during the discovery period.  It's illegal, yes, but
how is it discriminatory?   My understanding from the readings of the basis
of OCR complaints is that you have to show discrimination on the basis of
impairment.  I believe they would have done this to any child, handicapped or
not.  So is OCR really a vehicle for redress in situations such as this?  I
am really confused...I can't see that OCR is an appropriate place for issues
such as this one.  Any advice or insight you have would be appreciated.Subj:
Re:A Perfect System
Date:  95-10-15 22:19:35 EST
From:  SusanS29

"It's illegal, yes, but how is it discriminatory?"

You wouldn't be involved in any of this except for the fact that your child
has a handicap.

Now -- rules of evidence that apply court don't apply with OCR -- it isn't a
court room, and no lawyers are involved.  A better analogy would be to
compare it to Small Claims Court.

OCR's advantage is that it's relatively fast, and it's FAR cheaper than legal
action. However, if your intent is to punish the school district then legal
may be your only option. OCR will make a district change its ways, enforce
least restrictive environment, appropriate outplacement (where the district
has to pay tuitiion) in certain circumstances, but won't levy fines.